'I'm not really sure if that's a reasonable request to make': New vegan DND player demands the world be 'cruelty free,' dividing players

Author image for Remy Millisky
Remy Millisky • Writer and Editor
Feb 18, 2023 11:00 AM EST

As the dungeon master of a longstanding Dungeons & Dragons campaign, this person isn't sure how to respond after receiving a startling request from a brand new player. Using a throwaway account, u/EmotionalMacaroon169 wrote to the r/DND subreddit asking for some advice. The internet doesn't always provide the nuance needed in these scenarios, but people in the comments seemingly understood both sides of the issue. 

Is this vegan player wrong for demanding a universe that suits her needs at the expense of the other players? The OP was totally unsure what to do. Many commenters suggested the OP tell the new player that she isn't the right fit for their campaign. She'd probably be much more comfortable in a group that aligns with her values. But even then, others noted that the whole purpose of the game involves imaginary violence so… how does she square that with her vegan beliefs? It's quite the conundrum. 

Let's hope the OP updates us — I bet they can find the vegan DND player a new campaign to try, while also salvaging their years-long campaign with their friends. Next up are these 20 terrible designs, from a tombstone-esqe advertisement to a bathroom shower that basically guarantees a trip to the ER. 

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    Organism - r/DnD . Posted by u/Emotional Macaroon169 1 day ago DMing homebrew, vegan player demands a 'cruelty free world' - need advice. Out of Game
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    Font - Hi all, throwaway account as my players all know my main and I'd rather they not know about this conflict since I've chatted to them individually and they've not been the nicest to each other in response to this.
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    Font - I'm running a homebrew campaign which has been running for a few years now, and we recently had a new player join. This player is a mutual friend of a few people in the group who agreed that they'd fit the dynamic well, and it really looked like things were going nicely for a few sessions.
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  • 05
    Font - In the most recent session, they visited a tabaxi village. In this homebrew world, the tabaxi live in isolated tribes in a desert, so the PCs befriended them and spent some time using the village as a base from which to explore. The problem arose after the most recent session, where the hunters brought back a wild pig, prepared it, and then shared the feast with the PCs. One of the PCs is a chef by background and enjoys RP around food, so described his enjoyment of the feast in a lot of d
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    Font - The vegan player messaged me after the session telling me it was wrong and cruel to do that to a pig even if it's fictional, and that she was feeling uncomfortable with both the chef player's RP (quite a lot of it had been him trying new foods, often nonvegan as the setting is LOTR-type fantasy) and also several of my descriptions of things up to now, like saying that a tavern served a meat stew, or describing the bad state of a neglected dog that the party later rescued.
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    Font - She then went on to say that she deals with so much of this cruetly on a daily basis that she doesn't want it in her fantasy escape game. Since it's my world and I can do anything I want with it, it should be no problem to make it 'cruelty free' and that if I don't, I'm the one being cruel and against vegan values (I do eat meat).
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    Font - I'm not really sure if that's a reasonable request to make things like food which I was using as flavour can potentially go under the abstraction layer, but the chef player will miss out on a core part of his RP, which also gave me an easy way to make places distinct based on the food they serve. Part of me also feels like things like the neglect of the dog are core story beats that allow the PCs to do things that make the world a better place and feel like heroes.
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  • 09
    Font - So that's the situation. I don't want to make the vegan player uncomfortable, but I'm also wary of making the whole world and story bland if I comply with her demands. She sent me a list of what's not ok and it basically includes any harm to animals, period. Any advice on how to handle this is appreciated. Thank you.
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    Font - Edit: wow this got a lot more attention than expected. Thank you for all your advice. Based on the most common ideas, I agree it would be a good idea to do a mid-campaign 'session O' to realign expectations and have a discussion about this, particularly as they players themselves have been arguing about it. We do have a list of things that the campaign avoids that all players are aware of - eg one player nearly drowned as a child so we had a chat at the time to figure out what was ok and
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    Font - Edit2: our table snacks are completely vegan already to make the player feel welcome! I and the players have no issue with that. Edit3: to the people saying this is fake - if I only wanted karma or whatever, surely I would post this on my main account? Genuinely was here to ask for advice and it's blown up a bit. Many thanks to people coming with various suggestions of possible compromises. Despite everything, she is my friend as well as friends with many people in the group, so we want t
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    Font - gsnumis 1 day ago A campaign you've been running in your home brew world for a couple of years? I was respectfully tell her no. It infringes on your other players background and fun and if she's uncomfortable it's her responsibility to adapt or find a new group.
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    Font - tango421 1 day ago Yeah this is just nuts. If the world were already cruelty free... well... it wouldn't need the player characters would it? If the world is a great place, the characters aren't really needed to make it better. If Tabaxi are anything like cats, they are obligate carnivores. Also, they like the hunt.
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    Font - Honed Wombat 18 hr. ago I am fully 100% against murder! I feel that i should not have to deal with murder in the homebrew campaign, as it goes against my fundamental views that murder is wrong! I want to join your homebrew campaign, however you need to make sure that no killings of any type take place during the game! You have no choice but to accommodate my beliefs system in your campaign. I will not under any circumstances tolerate killing in any form!! ;)
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    Font - otwkme 23 hr. ago DM It also infringes on the other player's beliefs. This is a respectful no to her and maybe even a "if you really want to convince ppl of your beliefs, try another way other than attacking them"
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    Font - Ozryela 17 hr. ago I think her request "I experience enough cruelty in the real world, I don't want to be confronted with it in my escapism" is not illegitimate. We all seek different things in role play. On the other hand, while making small sacrifices to accommodate a new player is just common courtesy, there are certainly limits to that. You have to wonder if her request is compatible with the rest of the group. And if it is not, then well, the rest of the group was there first.
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  • 17
    Font - It's really no different from any other player preference in that regard. Some people want to play extremely combat oriented, others see combat as secondary to roleplay. Both are fine, but difficult to combine in one group. Likewise, you probably shouldn't play an evil character unless everyone is on board.
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    Font - gryfter_13 16 hr. ago I would tell her that this is the world, the way it is now. But she is an epic hero. Roleplay the change you want to see in the world. Let her convert a few communities to vegan or ethical eating. She'll feel 100 times better if she changes the world than if you do.
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    Font - theyreadmycomments 1 day ago Remember: if someone joined your game and quickly starts telling you that it needs to change to suit them, they shouldn't have been at your table to start with S
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    Rectangle - asmallishdino - 1 day ago Warlock This, forever this. I don't know why this is so hard for people to understand. I'm a vegan and would never ask the DM to bend an entire world around my values, especially after I've already joined a group. If she felt this strongly about this, she should've asked about the world before joining the group. Reply Share 4.5k
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    Font - I see something. 23 hr. ago. edited 19 hr. ago Yep straight up, "I don't think you are going to work out. I am grateful for your feedback but I'm not willing to make everyone else change their fantasy escape to meet your fantasy escape."
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    Font - Kevin_IRL edited 7 hr. ago 22 hr. ago. For anyone seeing this advice repeated everywhere but doesn't know why, one of the many reasons that this is good avice is that if you have a player like this who demands changes and won't change themself then you will be right back here before long, once again asking for help on how to deal with this player. It's not the players worldview that's the problem. It's that they're a narcissist. Two people with opposing worldviews can coexist and even com
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    Font - mcsestretch 22 hr. ago "Thank you for your feedback but it sounds like that my game would not be for you. The game world is part of a shared narrative experience and I do not tailor my world for one specific player. This world is not cruelty free and I believe you would have a better time with a different group."
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    Font - Artelhin 1 day ago Not exactly so, for one, I'd appreciate a new player telling me how to give them the best experience. The "demand" part is not cool though, seems like the player in question just projects their ego on other people for the sake of it. Probably remind her that it's a multi-player game and compromises must be made. Maybe should involve the cook PC into discussion too, to see if they have some suggestions. If no compromise is reached, I'd probably just tell the new player t
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    Font - or CheekApprehensive961 19 hr. ago So relieved this was the top post. This person sounds controlling af, if they don't like the game they walked into they're free to walk out. Demanding someone else change their character entirely because they don't like it is sheer as e behaviour, and frankly normal vegans wouldn't have a problem with someone describing eating meat in roleplay. Red flags on many levels. It'd be one thing if it were related to an actual traumatic experience like your play
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    Font - test_1234567890 - 19 hr. ago Yup. We are DMs, not trauma counselors. We do our best to accommodate many sensitive topics, but theres a point where someone is asking too much and should be paying a therapist fee to play at the table.
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    Human body - HighLord-Skeletor 1 day ago Then she should DM her own vegan friendly gaming world.
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    Font - oh_rlyeh_ya_rlyeh. 23 hr. ago Yeah, plenty of RPGs exist to allow that. 'Golden Sky Stories', for example, is award-winning and beloved for being a fanciful, non- violent game.
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    Font - FilliusTExplodio. 23 hr. ago Not to mention having to figure out the entire fing ecology of a world. What does a dragon eat? A lot of monster and animal encounters are out, they're just trying to eat the party. Do no animals eat other animals? Do predators even exist now? Leather armor is out, too.
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    Font - Vicith 1 day ago Doesn't seem very reasonable to me for a multi year homebrewed group to bow to the needs of one player. Seems kind of selfish she'd expect that tbh. Either she can adapt to it or she can leave the party.
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    Font - processedmeat 1 day ago I've played a pacifist character. Only utility and healing spells. It worked. The other PCs did harm and my character was appalled by their actions but we kept together for the greater good of the mission
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    Font - Day_Bow Bow - 21 hr. ago I can kinda understand not wanting a cruel world, but there isn't anything in OP's post that I'd call cruel. Cruel causes pain and suffering in others. If it was a clean kill by the hunters, that isn't cruel (if they chased it down and toyed with it like cats sometimes do, that's a different story). The whole RP during the feast is not cruel towards the pig, as you cannot be cruel to something that isn't alive. Disrespectful, sure, but not cruel.
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    Font - I get that this player is offended by the scenario, but they are using the wrong word. Now, if the DM/players were intentionally RPing gruesome details to offend the vegan player, then that might be considered cruel, but that would be the people being cruel, not the characters/world. Like if it was described in detail how the hog was butchered, then sure I could see them take offense. Enjoying a prepared feast where normal meat dishes were served, not so much.
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    Font - Service B4Self. 22 hr. ago Honestly, making demands at a table you're new at is a big faux pas. However, it sounds like you have a good friendship with this player, and you're posting here to find solutions that keep everyone happy. I get it.
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  • 35
    Font - So maybe just change up your verbiage a bit and be a little more vague with food and animals. Not to the point where it's just "you all sit down for dinner and it's yummy", but like, instead of describing the meaty meat stew that smells and looks of meat with meat toppings and seared meat, you could say that the dish was savory, with hints of exotic spices and local ingredients (for a higher quality dish) or like "the dish was fairly plain, the flavors were subtle, however it was incredib
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    Font - Don't forget to let your table know that a big part of D&D is imagination, so if they want specific details that don't really further the story, they are free to imagine them as they wish. side note: I'm definitely not a vegan, but have plenty of vegan and vegetarian friends.
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    Font - Pankratos_Gaming - 1 day ago The vegan player messaged me after the session telling me it was wrong and cruel to do that to a pig even if it's fictional It's also wrong to murder people, but it's what most d&d player characters do on a daily basis. If she has such a big issue with it, she should've said so before joining. Even though I advocate veganism, she can't expect all of you to adjust to her preferences. She can either deal with how it is now or leave the game.
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    Font - Cityof Orphans. 1 day ago If there was no cruelty in the world, why would your party even be adventuring in the first place? There are few problems that need an adventuring party to fix that aren't based in cruelty in one way or another.
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